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  • Stop Fleeters kill Eco

    Here's a wacky idea.

    Background:
    For a few weeks now I noticed, that Bridgetown and Bartica (on Roberts) have dropped to 54% and do not come up. Looking at it I noticed the govs there are all just fleeters, and apparently just care about their daily salary and possibly the fancy dresses. Granted, if the population were too low, then Bridgetown may not maintain enough oak production, but I don't think the population is quite that low.
    And you cannot vote them out either, because they're just swamped with fleeter's influence, such that they outbid you (non-fleeter) always, no matter how much influence you buy. And talking to them seems pointless.

    Idea:
    This got me thinking, what do fleeters bring to the RvR game? Unless they fleet for or against a port flip, nothing. So why not reward them accordingly with XP and influence (which is linked to XP). I.e. you only earn XP and influence, if the fleeting is RvR related. To make it interesting, once a port has 2000+ unrest, then fleeting in its waters to build or reduce unrest will earn you XP and influence as current (but there is the risk, that it might just go to 3000 while you're in a fleet, so some extra fun). Outside of that though, no XP or influence. If you fleet for db and loot only, no change - if you fleet for RvR only, no change either - only stops inept captains becoming govs purely because they do nothing else but fleet all day. Instead you might get govs, that have a keen interest in and understanding of RvR including Eco.

    Side effects:
    I know, this would make levelling your alts or new players more difficult - then again, for new players that might be a good thing (particularly if the missions would get a long overdue overhaul) - while doing missions to level up they might learn something useful about ship characteristics, which makes PvP that bit less daunting.

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Dragonfly View Post
    Here's a wacky idea.

    Background:
    For a few weeks now I noticed, that Bridgetown and Bartica (on Roberts) have dropped to 54% and do not come up. Looking at it I noticed the govs there are all just fleeters, and apparently just care about their daily salary and possibly the fancy dresses. Granted, if the population were too low, then Bridgetown may not maintain enough oak production, but I don't think the population is quite that low.
    And you cannot vote them out either, because they're just swamped with fleeter's influence, such that they outbid you (non-fleeter) always, no matter how much influence you buy. And talking to them seems pointless.

    Idea:
    This got me thinking, what do fleeters bring to the RvR game? Unless they fleet for or against a port flip, nothing. So why not reward them accordingly with XP and influence (which is linked to XP). I.e. you only earn XP and influence, if the fleeting is RvR related. To make it interesting, once a port has 2000+ unrest, then fleeting in its waters to build or reduce unrest will earn you XP and influence as current (but there is the risk, that it might just go to 3000 while you're in a fleet, so some extra fun). Outside of that though, no XP or influence. If you fleet for db and loot only, no change - if you fleet for RvR only, no change either - only stops inept captains becoming govs purely because they do nothing else but fleet all day. Instead you might get govs, that have a keen interest in and understanding of RvR including Eco.

    Side effects:
    I know, this would make levelling your alts or new players more difficult - then again, for new players that might be a good thing (particularly if the missions would get a long overdue overhaul) - while doing missions to level up they might learn something useful about ship characteristics, which makes PvP that bit less daunting.

    Any thoughts?
    I think most RvR players have been begging for this since pnp was introduced. Fleeting and general xp should absolutely not earn any influence for port governance. Since governance is so closely linked to RvR and Econ, those are the only two activities which should generate influence.

    Fleeters add nothing to the MMO, and PVE should absolutely not be so heavily rewarded, or at least so influential in game activities which they don't participate in AT ALL.

    Portalus, please revisit how influence is accrued, thanks!

    Comment


    • #3
      You have my vote!

      Something to differentiate between safe fleeting and interactive fleeting (rvr interaction) would be ideal. Your solution would work fine. Separate influence from xp gain when there is contention. Experience & influence only when port hits 3k, maybe 6k, as I can some lil redzones being created just to farm the influence safely in the outer reaches.
      Last edited by KeithBain; 09-21-2013, 07:55 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        The only thing "fleeters" bring are inflation and annoyance to nation chat. Fleeting has always given far too much of everything.

        Whilst you're about it, it would also be nice if there was a separate fleet chat channel, one which could be turned off for those that don't want to see the incessant call for Santa Clara.

        It would also benefit the whole game if fleet spawns were adjusted, just what are all those fleets doing outside of Santa Clara?

        Contention should drive the spawn of fleets more so that they can be usefully sunk for points.

        Why should low risk = high reward, why should a "fleeter" get CoC?

        Risk should = reward but in this game it rarely does and every time I made a suggestion to address this I've been shot down.

        Unfortunately I believe the game has a high proportion of "fleeters" so I don't see anything changing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PaulG View Post
          Unfortunately I believe the game has a high proportion of "fleeters" so I don't see anything changing.
          And unfortunately they seem to build their business model of those fleeters. But I haven't given up hope yet, that they start to realise the real drivers of their business revenue - PvP and RvR. How many Adventures or Sovereigns will get sunk (and re-bought) in fleeting, how many in PvP and PBs? (And I don't even agree with the "new shiny ship each month" business model )

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Dragonfly View Post
            And unfortunately they seem to build their business model of those fleeters. But I haven't given up hope yet, that they start to realise the real drivers of their business revenue - PvP and RvR. How many Adventures or Sovereigns will get sunk (and re-bought) in fleeting, how many in PvP and PBs? (And I don't even agree with the "new shiny ship each month" business model )
            Now that Portalus has given us a great PVP ship on the partner tier level, I'm certain they are seeing how many more of these are built than first or second rates. I'm certain Portalus recognizes the potential profit center there, but there is such a fine line between profiting from the pvpers and creating a "pay to win" business model.

            I don't mind the pay to win business model as I am a remnant from the "pay just to log in" era, and I loved it. I love this game enough to pay for it even if I'm not guaranteed a win. And I don't necessarily see the partner tier ships as pay to win anyway. If anything, more partner tier ships would be appreciated, as I'm recalling a post where a figure like 80% sticks out in my mind.

            But back on topic, the fleeters do unfortunately make up the majority of players, and this silent majority needs to be catered to in order to keep the lights on, so to speak. But reward them with stuff they will like--like those new Spanish Map tables, that's brilliant.

            But don't reward them with influence which negatively and unfairly gives the fleeters an unprecedented amount of influence in Econ and RvR. And this should absolutely not happen. It's bad gameplay.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am on board with this idea as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                The best governors are those who understand the importance of an attractive port to do business which means providing the highest possible infrastructure and the lowest taxes.
                And also providing a good defense......by far the best way to do that is to be online when the port your responsible for is being flipped.
                Also raising the defenses as high as affordable, 7 or 8 is good for most ports that aren't DNH's .......higher if the port has lots of money.

                FT's and especially ones that have large econ's make the best governors because they are usually there at their port to defend it, understand econ well, make the unrest bundles needed for defense and tend to be online a lot to manage their econ.
                Some FT's have enormous resources in their home port and if there also the governor it's a big advantage......they have all the unrest bundles and marks ready to go.

                During the successful defense of BT a couple nights ago I was able to load up every type of unrest bundle and others including Boris took care of the marks. The governor was not online then which made the defense more difficult.......actually I don't think he's online that much, maybe that's why he's got another governor challenge.
                We also had a very good PVP group, without them BT would now be into a PB with France.

                I've been Bridgetown's governor several times and right now Gulick has launched a challenge in BT and I like him......he's an experienced governor and is online a lot.......the two most important things for a governor.

                I've tossed out a couple of bad governors in BT but I won't start a challenge against a good governor, especially one who has invested a lot of their own money to improve the port. Some invest millions into the port......I have and it gets expensive......lol.
                It's not very often I see fleeters as governor.......is BT's current gov a fleeter ?

                Anyways I sometimes fleet at Bartica but I've also been in port battles and helped flips but 90% of my time I'm doing econ.
                We need to make this game attractive for all types of players......lord knows we need them.
                But I agree with the extra risk of RVR and PVP there should definitely be increased rewards.
                Last edited by Rockwell; 09-16-2013, 03:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PaulG View Post
                  Why should
                  Because most people prefer to PvE, and the sooner you realize it, the better. Forcing them to PvP or penalizing them for what they enjoy doing only leads them to quitting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    if you take out fleeting you lose a big portion of the already small player base, take exp out of fleeting then leveling up becomes harder take the link between exp and influense away and society leaders will be less inclined to help new players, i don't think reducing influence from fleeting is the answer but increasing it to a very high level (say triple)for earning exp in red, and even more for pvp maybe even 10 times the amount.

                    i think in the first post it was mentioned about not being able to vote someone out, the idea behind influence being tradable is so that in a way you can vote for someone by giving them your influence (the more influence you have the more your vote/backing counts)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not suggesting you shouldn't fleet, well maybe but not seriously. You can fleet all day long if that is what you want to do but what I'd like is for fleeting to be less rewarding whilst PvP and RvR were made more rewarding.

                      I wouldn't try to force anyone to PvP, especially not at the moment with the return of ganking to the game. I continue to PvP because I have historic millions (not on the scale of some guys), if I was a starting player I probably wouldn't go near it in its current format.

                      I could say that every time I PvP I'm punished because either I lose or I win marks that for the most part go straight in to my warehouse. I now need them for an adventure dura and before the last patch I used lots to get Santa Rosa dura (5 deeds still in warehouse) but other than that they have no real value to me.

                      Whilst doing PvP I have to use expensive repairs too to add insult to injury whilst the fleeters can use a hull patch superior should they over commit.

                      I gave PvP a go because ganking and clubbing were reduced before that I did missions and before that I did economy.

                      I can stomach fleets to obtain port battle points but it is not something I could do all the time.

                      In short I'd like alternative means to acquire doubloons for all. Imagine if missions, especially group missions were more rewarding than fleeting, wouldn't that be better for a PvE player?
                      Last edited by PaulG; 09-20-2013, 02:04 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by benson View Post
                        if you take out fleeting you lose a big portion of the already small player base, take exp out of fleeting then leveling up becomes harder

                        You don't do your missions do you?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Benson, this is exactly the short sighted fleeters' argument I expected.

                          Originally posted by benson View Post
                          if you take out fleeting you lose a big portion of the already small player base
                          Wrong. I don't want to take out fleeting per se, although I can't see the attraction, there are plenty of players doing it by choice or lack of other choices.

                          Originally posted by benson View Post
                          take exp out of fleeting then leveling up becomes harder
                          Wrong. As I said, that might be a good thing, particularly if they finally overhauled the missions so you don't waste time criss crossing the map and instead learn about shipcom, the impact of fittings and skills, even avcom, if it ever gets fixed.
                          This would give you much more of a chance to enjoy more aspects of the game.

                          Originally posted by benson View Post
                          take the link between exp and influense away and society leaders will be less inclined to help new players
                          Wrong. Soc leaders are not helping new players, they're just helping themselves to more loot (i.e. bigger fleets generate more loot and new players begging for XP will pass the loot). And they invite new players (literally at Jenny Bay as they first appear on the pier), just so they can help themselves to the influence gained by them. That's why any influence should go to the players, not the soc.

                          Originally posted by benson View Post
                          i think in the first post it was mentioned about not being able to vote someone out, the idea behind influence being tradable is so that in a way you can vote for someone by giving them your influence (the more influence you have the more your vote/backing counts)
                          Wrong. Tried that, but only the Soc leaders can pledge influence to a normal player for him to sell it. Of course, if those soc leaders want to be govs, they wont pledge any away (for sale), so you can't buy enough to vote them out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The influence system is so convoluted. They basically released an expansion which 90% of the playerbase will never experience because governor stuff is all controlled by society leaders.

                            And people fleet because what alternative is there? Every couple of months, I logon and fleet for a couple days and then uninstall the game because fleeting is miserable. If I want to participate in the actual fun of the game like pb's, what other option do I have for grinding db's? Fairfax farming maybe (btw, lol at the idea of grinding for rare boss drops like I'm playing WoW)?

                            Back on release I made a killing controlling France's limestone market using alt trades with other servers, but now the economy is dead and if I want to make money I would have to waste so much time setting up a self-sufficient econ chain. I'm honestly asking, is there any other reasonable way besides fleet grinding to fund decent pb ships?
                            Last edited by smokemonster; 09-21-2013, 01:39 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smokemonster View Post
                              The influence system is so convoluted. They basically released an expansion which 90% of the playerbase will never experience because governor stuff is all controlled by society leaders.

                              And people fleet because what alternative is there? Every couple of months, I logon and fleet for a couple days and then uninstall the game because fleeting is miserable. If I want to participate in the actual fun of the game like pb's, what other option do I have for grinding db's? Fairfax farming maybe (btw, lol at the idea of grinding for rare boss drops like I'm playing WoW)?

                              Back on release I made a killing controlling France's limestone market using alt trades with other servers, but now the economy is dead and if I want to make money I would have to waste so much time setting up a self-sufficient econ chain. I'm honestly asking, is there any other reasonable way besides fleet grinding to fund decent pb ships?
                              Fleet to generate econ funds. You seem to know how to do econ well. Most do not. Use that as your competitive advantage, make a killing with econ. You ought to know that the setup is the most tedious task. After that, it's basically on autopilot, and the funds just come pouring in.

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