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  • Extremely confused would-be Freetrader (new player)

    I recently discovered this game and within almost no time started to love it (and sometimes to hate it). Since I love all things related to economics I started to level a FT. And this is where my confusion begins. To be honest I do not have any clue what to do to engage in economics in earnest. Of course, I finished the starter tutorial and hence do have an oak farm and a lumber mill. By chance I received a deed (or is it a recipe book?) about iron ore mining. Hence, I thought about starting out in the iron processing business with the ultimate goal of producing iron ingots.

    However, I do not know where to acqire the necessary deeds / structures / recipe books (or how these things are called ... I do have some problems with the notions since accidentally I play with the German interface, which is no problem while playing (I am a native german language speaker), but it is a big problem when reading all your very helpful threads here ... not all translations are quite obvious).

    I tried to buy some required recipe books (etc.?) at various AHs. But it seems to me that there are only a fraction of all possible recipe books (etc.?) on sale. Is this impression correct? But how can I plan my economic endeavors? Of course, sometimes I receive some recipes via missions or via loot from enemy NPC ships. But most of them seem to be higher level stuff (like making specific sails etc.).

    I am not sure, if I was able to outline my problems clearly, but it may be that I am still too confused to define my problems / misunderstandings correctly. Or is it necessary to postpone my economic projects until I am of higher level? Currently, I am a FT of lvl 15.

    Thanks (and of course, I read most of the economics guides here and at wiki etc. and I appreciate these ressources provided by the community).

  • #2
    You can make money at 15... but its not easy especially producing. Everyone is competeing for profits so it is not easy to get huge profits without a well thought out plan. Filling buy orders works pretty well although it can punch you in the face with phony 1DB orders after a few nice profitable trades.

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    • #3
      Thanks for your response. Since my plans are long-term, I do not intend to make money out of production immediately (I am not looking for a get-rich-quick-scheme ). My problem is more, that I do not know how to plan and start my intended productions chain in the first place. The main reason being that I do not know how to acquire the necessary "skills" (structures, recipe books or how they are called ...) in the first place.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ginz View Post
        However, I do not know where to acqire the necessary deeds / structures / recipe books (or how these things are called ... I do have some problems with the notions since accidentally I play with the German interface, which is no problem while playing (I am a native german language speaker), but it is a big problem when reading all your very helpful threads here ... not all translations are quite obvious).
        Structures make stuff on lots.
        Structures are built with materials (mostly iron ingots, hemp rope, oak blocks, oak logs, granite, gravel, and common logs will be what you need 90% of the time) and a structure deed.
        Structure deeds are built from a draughtsman's office or a master draughtsman's office. Or buy them from the auctioneer. Or ask in nation for someone to make a deed. Plenty of people have them and they take little time. I personally keep my MDO built fulltime, whether I use it or not.
        Recipes mostly come from building the structure, but they also come from a wide variety of recipe books.

        I tried to buy some required recipe books (etc.?) at various AHs. But it seems to me that there are only a fraction of all possible recipe books (etc.?) on sale. Is this impression correct? But how can I plan my economic endeavors? Of course, sometimes I receive some recipes via missions or via loot from enemy NPC ships. But most of them seem to be higher level stuff (like making specific sails etc.).
        Try Remus' Production Planner here.

        Use F1.

        Thanks for your response. Since my plans are long-term, I do not intend to make money out of production immediately (I am not looking for a get-rich-quick-scheme ). My problem is more, that I do not know how to plan and start my intended productions chain in the first place. The main reason being that I do not know how to acquire the necessary "skills" (structures, recipe books or how they are called ...) in the first place.
        Well, you'll generally get the basic recipes needed to run a structure when you build it the first time. More advanced recipes need skill books.

        As a FTer, to get Advanced recipes that are like their basic counterparts but run faster, you'll have to be level 20 and do your career missions to get the skill. And probably have to buy the skillbooks in Port Royal (I think you still have to buy them).

        Comment


        • #5
          The economy tutorials only really touch the surface. Most items that people actually want to buy require several different structures, and for effecient use of your structure lots you want to balance the number of structures so the output of one matches the material needs of the next.

          As an example, I will go through the steps needed to work out how to make Leather. You can follow me by looking at the in-game F1 help, starting with Manufactured Goods > Leather.
          • The first recipe is Recipe: Cure Hides
            Time: 8 Hours
            Cost: 60 doubloons
            Ingredients: Crate of Hides 10
            Output: Leather 10
            Structure: Tanner
            No recipe book is listed so the recipe comes with the structure.
            Next click on the hyperlink for the ingredient, Crate of Hides....

          • Crate of Hides is one of the very few items with more than one recipe, but I can tell you that Recipe: Butcher Beef is the cheaper and more efficient option (although it does require more structures).
            Time: 1 Hour
            Cost: 50 doubloons
            Ingredients: Livestock 1
            Output: Beef 4, Crate of Hides 4
            Structure: Slaughterhouse
            No recipe book is listed so the recipe comes with the structure.

          • The final recipe is Recipe: Breed Cattle
            Time: 4 hours
            Cost: 64 doubloons
            Output: Livestock 2
            Structure: Pasture
            Once again, no recipe book is needed.
          So to make leather we need three different structures and the output of one forms the input of the next. But to use just one of each structure would be very inefficient:
          The Pasture makes 1 Livestock in 2 hours but the Slaughterhouse uses 1 Livestock in 1 hour. Therefore it would make better use of the Slaughterhouse to have 2 Pastures to make Livestock.
          If we have 2 Pastures and 1 Slaughterhouse, we will be making 4 Crates of Hides an hour, but the Tanner can only process 10 Crates of Hides in 8 hours, ie it uses 1.25 Crates of Hides an hour and we need 3.2 Tanners to use all the output from our Slaughterhouse. Most players will build 3 Tanners and either sell the extra hides or sometimes build a fourth Tanner for a week or two to process the surplus hides.

          You might like to consider how much it will cost to run this leather line; I will let you work this out yourself - don't forget the tax (added to the recipe cost) and structure upkeep. And while looking at structure you need to look at what port resources are required. For these three structures only the Pasture has a requirement: Fertile Soil, which is found in many ports. Some resources are only found in three or four ports.

          However, even after all this, Leather is not an end product - it is merely an ingredient of higher level items such as rigging which in turn is used to make rigs which form part of ship recipes. Leather is also used directly in some outfittings and consumables. All of this can be looked up in F1 Help.

          I have used leather as an example, but it is easy enough to apply the same analysis to something like iron ingots, iron fittings, nails or heavy round shot (all sensible things to make with iron).

          To make money requires a knowledge of what sells (ok, that's easy: ships and outfittings, and to a lesser extent ammo, consumables and experts - but knowing which ships etc sell is a little harder), where it sells, where it is made and what the makers of these finished goods want or need to buy. The AH histories of different items is invaluable here - you can see the last 10 trades of every item in each port in the AH interface, but as it is timeconsuming to look them up, you really want an idea of what you think you want to make before you start.

          And this knowing where to start is where skill and experience come in. It is why some people make money and others do not, and as with most things in the game the more you play the better you are likely to come.

          Level 15 is not too soon to start, but iron might not be the best thing to start with as it always needs hauling (iron ore and limestone are never both in the same port) and at level 15 the best hauler is the Limburg with its mere 445 capacity. Iron is also quite expensive to make so you could end up in financial difficulties if you cannot sell your output. That is not to say it is impossible - I've made ships at level 15 after creating a Buccaneer pirate on Roberts - but I had the advantage of knowing what I was doing before I started.

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          • #6
            @thanks for your reply, @remus. I appreciate your advice, especially since you are a true expert in the economics of this game.

            I have to admit, that I am more noobish, that you can imagine. Of some of the theoretical points you mention, I am quit aware of.

            My problems are deeper: For example, I thought about starting mining limestone in Bartica. I thought I could buy the necessary skills (Baugenehmigung in German, literally a licence to build some structure) at the AH. But I did not find any relevant item at the AH. So how can I even think about starting mining limestone ? And this holds true (at least from my ingorant point of view) of other, much more complex production processes ?

            Maybe I am missing some very basic, eventually very easy thing ?
            Last edited by ginz; 08-18-2011, 02:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Let me take a look at the German language version and see if I can help.

              To mine Limestone in Bartica you will need a warehouse (Lager) which you should have already from the economy tutorial.
              You then need a Structure Deed (Baugenehmigung) for a Limestone Quarry (Urkunde: Steibruche (Kalkstein)) - it is this latter term you need to look for on the AH, but you can select Baugenehmigung as a Gegenstandskategorie if it makes searching easier.
              You do not need to get a recipe book (Rezeptbuch) to quarry limestone - the recipe comes with the structure.

              To use the structure deed to actually build the structures you will need a spare structure lot (empty box at bottom of the Economy window), 1000 db and a few building materials which you will see either in F1 help or as a tooltip when you hover over the deed icon.

              I hope this helps.

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              • #8
                @thank you very much, Remus. Your explanation makes sense. I will try it tomorrow. Hopefully, I will soon smile about my confusion

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